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Bagua and Hsing Yi

topic posted Fri, June 23, 2006 - 4:50 PM by  Justin
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I was just wondering how many of you out there were taught Hsing Yi as a prerequisite for doing Bagua?

As I understand it, it was necessary (I think I read this in Kumar Frantiz's book?) to get the power first from Hsing Yi before getting the footwork and twisting from Bagua.

Thanks!
posted by:
Justin
New York City
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  • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Fri, June 23, 2006 - 8:36 PM
    I have not. My instructor studied it seperately before being exposed to Ba Gua. We've discussed many times about the differences between the two, and he indicates that the power is very different.

    From what he says, and from the practioners I've seen, practicing Hsing Yi first doesn't seem necessary.
  • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Mon, July 10, 2006 - 4:55 AM
    I've had several masters say that you can't generate power if you don't practice xingyi along with bagua. I don't recall any of them saying that you had to practice xingyi first, just that you needed to practice both. My master would alternate between teaching me xingyi and bagua week to week.
  • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Mon, July 10, 2006 - 6:07 PM
    I was first exposed to Ba Qua through the Chinese Shao Lin Center school/system. (Let's not let this degenerate into a thread about the effects of a huge overarching ciriculum), They had Ba Qua as first Black material, and Hsing Yi was third degree or so. The way their system worked, first degree didn't come until about 2 years of training or so. Yang tai chi (basic 64 move), Chin Tai Chi (18 and 24 moves, I think), and Yin/Yang dagger were prerequesits. Yin/Yang dagger was a really good preface to higher level internal stuff, because it gave a little taste of a lot of different internal styles.

    Not to say I can generate power, but I've never had proper hsing yi training, and never fealt that that slowed my development in ba qua... but then again, I wouldn't be able to know if it was, would I?
    • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

      Tue, July 11, 2006 - 5:23 AM
      Bagua and Xing I are two different arts that do not require training in each other to be effective. The cross training was mostly started in the last century by Sun Lu Tang and his teachers and contemporaries.

      One thing that most internal systems do require in order to cultivate power generation is what has come to be called I Quan - standing meditation. I think Xing I and Bagua are great complements to each other, personally, but each art can stand alone.
    • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

      Tue, July 11, 2006 - 4:08 PM
      This is my best guess as to the reasons why people say that you need xingyi to get power in your bagua.

      Dong Haichuan only accepted students who had already mastered other styles of martail arts. He took what they had learned already and added his distinctive footwork to it, to develop it into bagua. Because of that, what he taught them was not geared towards a beginner who did not already know how to fajing. Some bauga schools have since developed ways of teaching this within bagua, such as Gao style's 64 hands. Others, such as my lineage, simply taught bagua and xingyi together as complimentary styles.

      Of course, you could also learn this from doing shaolin, tai chi, etc. I think that its just easier to get it out of xingyi because bauga and xingyi are so similar.

      Just my $.02
  • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Fri, September 1, 2006 - 8:37 PM
    I am doing it, taking Hsing I as well as Ba gua, it is recomended here but not required.
    • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

      Sat, September 2, 2006 - 10:09 AM
      I just started Bagua a few months ago, and without doing Hsing Yi first, it would take a significant more amount of time to at least get that foundation down the way I'm being taught Bagua. Hope that made sense!
      • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

        Sat, September 2, 2006 - 1:37 PM
        makes sense to me. To get the foundation of any art takes quite a bit of arduous training. But, the nice thing about bagua, and xing i is that they share some common principles - so, if you master (or at least become moderately proficient) at one, you can have a head start on the other.

        Perhaps this is why they are so often trained together. Many of the body/mind principles are similar, yet they each train aspects of movement that the other is weaker in.
  • Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Sat, September 16, 2006 - 9:46 AM
    well justin i was taught the opposite end of the spectrum see when my sifu daniel taught me hsing-i chuan when i finaly had my elements and my animals down as far as self-defense and i understood the self-healing applications, i thought i was "done" with my baer-hand training from hsing-i well yes and no,When daniel told me that i have only "scratched the surface" on my wutang gungfu training and that to make my hsing-i complete i had to learn baguazhang (he made reference to the pact way back when the the hsing-i master gou yun shen, and the BaGua master dong hai chuan signed requireing students of both styles to cross train in the other as mandatory, After there famous three day match after which master gou condided defeat to master dong. And i gotta tell you bagua has to be the hardest gungfu style i ever had tyo learn!!!! when sifu taught me the 8 mother palms when i finaly learnt them all (after 5 weeks) i began to feel a little sick in my body he just said that when i walked the circle and when i did a palm change that my meridians would twist around on them self's and that was the way bagua workede out the toxins from the organs assco. with that meridian.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Bagua and Hsing Yi

    Sat, December 30, 2006 - 11:18 AM
    Each are respected arts unto themselves expressing the spiral in different ways. Almost all of Dong Hai Chuan's disciples were acomplished martial artists in other styles. Having a foundation in another system is very beneficial when trying to learn not only the complex movements of bagua zhang, but also the internal subtlies of the art. In other words, it's harder to learn bgz when you don't even know how to coordinate your body in a martial way. Studying xingyi first gives the student the oportunity to develop some coordination and connection, before puting a different twist in it. Just my limited observations.

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